Io invece ritengono tutta la storia fra Robb e Talisa un palese tentativo d inserire una storlyine strappa lacrime. Dai, persino le effusioni tenerelle con discorso "Insegnerai al piccolo Ned a cavalcare?".
O Ygritte che da bruta selvaggia diventa una tenera fanciullina innamorata con capelli perfetti.
La qualità delle prime stagioni era alta spratutto perchè si basavano sui libri migliori, quelli con gli intrecci e i colpi di scena migliori
Il declino guarda caso c'è stato dalla quinta in poi, che dovendo riassumere due libri "filler" ha finito per essere una stagione di passaggio (non sto dicendo che gli intrecci e i colpi di scena di questi libri siano inferiori, ma a differenza di quelli dei primi tre non smuovono di molto la situazione, anzi, la complicano).
Non a caso la qualità è salita con la sesta stagione, la stagione che riesce a fare quello che Martin non sta facendo, ossia uscire dalla situazione di stallo post Nozze Rosse dando finalmente ai fan la sensazione che si sta muovendo verso qualcosa.
Il discorso sul calo di qualità delle ultime due stagioni è un altro, ma comunque la settima era ancora apprezzata, è l'ottava specie verso la fine che è stata odiata anche da una parte delgi spettatori non lettori.
I problemi di GOT cominciano già dalla seconda stagione con la storia d'amore tra Robb e Talisa, Talisa che diventa lo stereotipo del XIX o XX secolo della giovane donna di nobile famiglia che abbandona tutto per diventare una crocerossina in un paese straniero e Robb che viene caratterizzato come un giovane del tutto sprovveduto e ingenuo( onorevole diventa stupido nel lessico di Benioff e Weiss)
Non mi è poi mai andato a genio tutto il worldbuilding di GOT(la sua totale assenza) e l'eccessiva semplificazione dei 7 Regni rispetto ai libri con l' omissione di tantissime casate chiave e le faccende politiche e dinastiche che vengono brutalmente tagliate o ridotte al lumicino
La sesta stagione di GOT per me ha gli stessi problemi di scrittura di quelle che la precedono e la seguono
La Battaglia dei Bastardi non trova alcun fondamento nella tattica e nella logistica militare ma diventa un'altra occasione per portare avanti l'assassinio del personaggio di Jon Snow
"Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less."
La sesta stagione viene considerata bene dai più perchè finalmente da quello che i lettori aspettavano da sedici anni, ovvero l'uscita dalla situazione di stallo in cui i libri si sono impantanti dalle Nozze Rosse in poi.
Ma se i lettori erano già incavolati per la quinta , e la certezza che non avrebbero visto nulla di vero da quel momento in poi ........
È evidente che non sto parlando con veri lettori visto che pensate ci sia qualcosa di canonico nella sesta , bastano 4 e 5 libro per smentire tutto.
Dino Sauro ha scritto:Ma se i lettori erano già incavolati per la quinta , e la certezza che non avrebbero visto nulla di vero da quel momento in poi ........
È evidente che non sto parlando con veri lettori visto che pensate ci sia qualcosa di canonico nella sesta , bastano 4 e 5 libro per smentire tutto.
Infatti i lettori hanno in gra parte (e parl di quelli più aperti mentalmente, i talebani già stavano con la bava alla bocca dalla seconda più o meno) hanno apprezzato molto di più la sesta stagione rispetto alla quinta. Se vai a vedere i commenti all'epoca, c'era molto più entusiasmo, finalmente i lettori avevano risposte a domande che attendevano da anni, finalmente si stava andando verso una conclusione...la quinta stagione è piaciuta poco non tanto perchè poco fedele ai libri, ma proprio perchè era una stagione lenta e abbastanza inconcludente.
Il discorso del canon non c'entra nulla.
ASOIAF è una saga che inizia col botto, prosegue col botto nei primi tre libri e dal terzo in poi la trama si impantana finendo in una situazione di stallo, fino al quinto che finisce con "Eh sta per scoppiare il casino, devi attendere un po' (e sappimao quanto sta durando quel po) ma ci sarà"
GOT uguale, inizia col botto, prosegue col botto con 3-4 stagioni e poi una quinta stagione in cui la trama di impantana finendo con "Eh sta per scoppiare il casino, devi attendere un po', ma ci sarà"
La sesta come detto ha sbloccato la situazione in cui Martin si è impantanato post terzo libro:
Non è difficile immaginare come mai all'epoca molti lettori erano entusiasiti di queste svolte, per molti di loro era un spgno che diventava realtà
Lo youtuber Quinn the GM ha riscoperto quella che è probabilmente la peggior dichiarazione mai fatta da D&D:
https://x.com/quinnthegm/status/1940453918942601685?t=Me4OUdcczv68VQZ0ZKVFjA&s=19
The time between the notes relates the colour to scenes,
A constant vogue of triumphs dislocate man, so it seems,
And space between the focus shape ascend knowledge of love
As song and chance develop time lost social temperance rules above
Then according to the man who showed his outstretched arm to space,
He turned around and pointed revealing all the human race,
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
Jon Anderson & Steve Howe (Close to the Edge)
What is honor compared to a woman's love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms… or the memory of a brother's smile? Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.
George R. R. Martin (A Game of Thrones)
The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect,
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time,
A garden to nurture and protect
It's a measure of a life
The treasure of a life is a measure of love and respect,
The way you live, the gifts that you give
In the fullness of time,
It's the only return that you expect
Neil Peart (The Garden)
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, ‘The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.’ I agree with the second part.
Andrew Kevin Walker (Seven)
In this game that we’re playing, we can’t win. Some kinds of failure are better than other kinds, that’s all.
George Orwell (Nineteen Eighty-Four)
Della serie cosa non si fa per un po' di visualizzazioni
Non penso ne abbia bisogno, è uno youtuber che ha da anni un discreto seguito (per la cronaca, qualche volta mi sono rispettosamente confrontato con lui in merito ad alcune teorie).
Conosco diverse persone che sono rimaste disgustate dalle dichiarazioni contenute in Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon, quindi credo sia un sentimento diffuso. Ho deciso di non toccare quel libro proprio per questo motivo, mi sono bastati i vari riassunti ed estratti sul web.
Questo è il video in cui fa un'analisi più approfondita, se a qualcuno dovesse interessare:
The time between the notes relates the colour to scenes,
A constant vogue of triumphs dislocate man, so it seems,
And space between the focus shape ascend knowledge of love
As song and chance develop time lost social temperance rules above
Then according to the man who showed his outstretched arm to space,
He turned around and pointed revealing all the human race,
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
Jon Anderson & Steve Howe (Close to the Edge)
What is honor compared to a woman's love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms… or the memory of a brother's smile? Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.
George R. R. Martin (A Game of Thrones)
The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect,
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time,
A garden to nurture and protect
It's a measure of a life
The treasure of a life is a measure of love and respect,
The way you live, the gifts that you give
In the fullness of time,
It's the only return that you expect
Neil Peart (The Garden)
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, ‘The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.’ I agree with the second part.
Andrew Kevin Walker (Seven)
In this game that we’re playing, we can’t win. Some kinds of failure are better than other kinds, that’s all.
George Orwell (Nineteen Eighty-Four)
@Jacaerys Velaryon
Fire cannot kill a Dragon sarebbe quel libro dove vengono rivelati segreti, approfondimenti sulla produzione delle otto stagioni di GOT?
"Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less."
@JonSnow1992
Sì. Avevo condiviso sul forum negli anni passati una serie di passaggi tratti dal libro.
The time between the notes relates the colour to scenes,
A constant vogue of triumphs dislocate man, so it seems,
And space between the focus shape ascend knowledge of love
As song and chance develop time lost social temperance rules above
Then according to the man who showed his outstretched arm to space,
He turned around and pointed revealing all the human race,
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
Jon Anderson & Steve Howe (Close to the Edge)
What is honor compared to a woman's love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms… or the memory of a brother's smile? Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.
George R. R. Martin (A Game of Thrones)
The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect,
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time,
A garden to nurture and protect
It's a measure of a life
The treasure of a life is a measure of love and respect,
The way you live, the gifts that you give
In the fullness of time,
It's the only return that you expect
Neil Peart (The Garden)
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, ‘The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.’ I agree with the second part.
Andrew Kevin Walker (Seven)
In this game that we’re playing, we can’t win. Some kinds of failure are better than other kinds, that’s all.
George Orwell (Nineteen Eighty-Four)
@Jacaerys Velaryon
Me li sono persi. Ho scoperto solo oggi dell'esistenza di questo libro documentario(suppongo sia un art book o qualcosa del genere)
Potresti linkare nuovamente i passaggi più controversi?
"Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less."
JonSnow1992 ha scritto:@Jacaerys Velaryon
Me li sono persi. Ho scoperto solo oggi dell'esistenza di questo libro documentario(suppongo sia un art book o qualcosa del genere)
Potresti linkare nuovamente i passaggi più controversi?
Adesso ritrovarli è un'impresa, perché i link non sono più funzionanti. 
Per ora ho recuperato questo link con una serie di commenti dell'autore del libro: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/j6vtz7/spoilers_extended_im_james_hibberd_the_author_of/
Sulla divergenza GOT-ASOIAF dalla stagione 5:
Thank you! I read Reddit daily so I’m sort of geeking out to be doing this again. I’m glad you asked this question because I have an entire chapter, titled “The Forks in the Road,” about the amicable divorce between GRRM and the showrunners. There’s a lot to unpack there.
The thing is, by season five, Thrones was bursting at the seams with up to 30 series regulars and darting between eight stories set in different locations—Daenerys fighting an uprising in Meereen, Cersei struggling with the Faith Militant in King’s Landing, Sansa dealing with Ramsay at Winterfell, Brienne traveling in the north, Arya training at the House of Black and White, Jon navigating his new found leadership duties at Castle Black, Stannis and Ser Davos marching their army south, and Jaime trying to rescue Myrcella in Dorne. That’s an insane amount of story. There were so many storylines that Bran Stark and The Hound were both benched that year.
So from the producers’ POV, they felt expanding the show much further was never much of an option from a practical standpoint without starting to lose major characters. But from George’s POV, he assumed Dan and David would spent as much time adapting Feast and Dragons as they had spent on the previous books. He didn’t realize they were going to jettison his new characters and storylines — so he thought he had more time to get the next book out.
That’s some of the broad strokes of it...
Sul primo pilot:
A year ago I would have said with 100 percent certainty that it will never be released because that’s a firm policy for unaired pilots. Networks don’t want to alienate top talent or create a universe where two alternate versions exist and there might even be some big financial penalty that gets triggered in terms of compensating everybody. But we’re now in a post-merger HBO Max world with an endless streaming universe the that must be filled and they’re putting out a new edit of Justice League so … I’ll say I’m 99 percent sure it will never be released ... Also, personally, I'm more curious to see the canceled Naomi Watts prequel pilot
Sulla durata di GOT che avevano in mente D&D:
That's another thing I was fascinated by as well, and did an entire chapter in the book on (titled "All Shows Must Die"). Once again, a lot of factors. But one thing that was interesting was going back through my interview transcripts over the years and realizing I had asked the showrunners the same question "how long is Game of Thrones?" every year I was on the set. From the filming of season 2 onward they always replied roughly 70 hours. Then the show ended up being nearly exactly that. So while it may or may not have been the right decision to end it when they did, they always believed this was the best idea and didn't change their minds and decide to end it all early, as some have said.
Another thing to remember is that at the time, the big trap for showrunners was being forced to keep their popular serialized shows going for too long and creatively losing their way (like Lost and X Files) whereas a series the showrunners really admired and loved, Breaking Bad, left viewers wanting more (ending at roughly 60 hours). So I think they were trying to err on the side of leaving viewers wanting more and ... well, definitely succeeded at that!
Also I'd like to add that whether you love the final season, or hate the final season, what's undeniable is the making of the final season is a pretty fascinating story -- it was arguably the most difficult-to-produce season of television ever made.
Sul finale dei personaggi principali in ASOIAF:
The fabled three big things GRRM told Dan and Dave that they used in the back seasons were Hodor's death (and origin story), Stannis burning Shireen and "who ends up on the Iron Throne." The only thing I can say aside from that is there will be some rather big differences.
Una precisazione su chi siederà sull'Iron Throne in ASOIAF:
Domanda: Coming back to this, is there a reason why you put quotation marks around who ends up on the Iron Throne? The show established it was Bran and I noticed that in your book, GRRM doesn't even say it's Bran either, just 'who ends up on the throne.'
It makes me wonder if GRRM did in fact tell them who ends up on the throne, but they decided to choose Bran instead since, as they said in your book, they wanted the whole 3ER thing to 'lead to something consequential'.
Risposta: I'm pretty sure he was simply referring to Bran...but I put it in quotes just in case he was being tricky.
The time between the notes relates the colour to scenes,
A constant vogue of triumphs dislocate man, so it seems,
And space between the focus shape ascend knowledge of love
As song and chance develop time lost social temperance rules above
Then according to the man who showed his outstretched arm to space,
He turned around and pointed revealing all the human race,
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
Jon Anderson & Steve Howe (Close to the Edge)
What is honor compared to a woman's love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms… or the memory of a brother's smile? Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.
George R. R. Martin (A Game of Thrones)
The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect,
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time,
A garden to nurture and protect
It's a measure of a life
The treasure of a life is a measure of love and respect,
The way you live, the gifts that you give
In the fullness of time,
It's the only return that you expect
Neil Peart (The Garden)
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, ‘The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.’ I agree with the second part.
Andrew Kevin Walker (Seven)
In this game that we’re playing, we can’t win. Some kinds of failure are better than other kinds, that’s all.
George Orwell (Nineteen Eighty-Four)
@JonSnow1992
Poi ci sarebbe un altro libro, pubblicato successivamente, che contiene ulteriori indiscrezioni: Tinderbox: HBO’s Ruthless Pursuit of New Frontiers.
* D&D erano molto inesperti, al punto che già dalla prima stagione ebbero problemi di gestione di budget e sceneggiatura. Inoltre, pensarono che il raggiungimento del successo della serie avrebbe consentito loro di dover sacrificare meno tempo ad essa (come se fosse una macchina che lavora per conto suo), e invece accadde il contrario.
* La scelta da parte dell'HBO di affidare al duo la conduzione della serie viene definita "un azzardo", che però funzionò anche grazie all'aiuto fondamentale della produttrice Bernadette Caulfield, la "risolutrice di problemi".
[Vedere anche qui: Meet the Woman Who Is the ‘Best Thing That Ever Happened’ to ‘Game of Thrones’ - The New York Times (nytimes.com)]
* I vertici della HBO furono molto preoccupati quando D&D dissero che:
1) Volevano che le ultime stagioni avessero meno episodi;
2) Volevano che la serie si concludesse con due film da trasmettere al cinema.
La seconda parte non si è poi realizzata, come sappiamo.
* GRRM iniziò a preoccuparsi della traiettoria assunta da GOT dopo la quinta stagione, e disse a D&D: "Non state seguendo il mio schema".
The time between the notes relates the colour to scenes,
A constant vogue of triumphs dislocate man, so it seems,
And space between the focus shape ascend knowledge of love
As song and chance develop time lost social temperance rules above
Then according to the man who showed his outstretched arm to space,
He turned around and pointed revealing all the human race,
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
Jon Anderson & Steve Howe (Close to the Edge)
What is honor compared to a woman's love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms… or the memory of a brother's smile? Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy.
George R. R. Martin (A Game of Thrones)
The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect,
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time,
A garden to nurture and protect
It's a measure of a life
The treasure of a life is a measure of love and respect,
The way you live, the gifts that you give
In the fullness of time,
It's the only return that you expect
Neil Peart (The Garden)
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, ‘The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.’ I agree with the second part.
Andrew Kevin Walker (Seven)
In this game that we’re playing, we can’t win. Some kinds of failure are better than other kinds, that’s all.
George Orwell (Nineteen Eighty-Four)
