[...] (ma questo significherebbe che i primi setteerano 1 stark, 1 lannister, 1 tyrrel, 1 greyjoy, 1 tully, 1 arryn...e chi era il 7°, visto che Dorne non era stata sottomessa?)
un targ stesso 
a questo punto...come si diventa "spade bianche"?
Imho, non c'è (tanto lo so che vengo smentito... ) una regola precisa che lo stabilisce...bisognerebbe risalire indietro nel tempo per verificare se sussista una sorta di 'consuetudine' che si sia consolidata nel tempo...Ad intuito individuerei due ipotesi:
1) il cavaliere che si ritiene degno propone egli stesso la propria candidatura, quando si veridfica una vacanza, direttamente al Re (o tramite il Concilio); il quale dopo averne valutato i requisiti (e sentito magari anche il parere del Comandante delle Cappe) decide;
2) la candidatura dell'aspirante viene proposta dal Concilio o dal Comandante direttamente al Re che si pronuncia.
veramente interessante!!!!!
nemmeno io lo sapevo.....
Certo ke alcuni di voi sono proprio dei pozzi di scienza di WESTEROS!.....ragazzi illuminatemi bene sui cavalieri, così mi faccio una bella ripassata su queste figure leggendarie!
Khal rakharo qual'è il tuo lavoro incompleto?Se lo completi xkè non lo piazzi in Cittadella,sarebbe interessantissimo sapere di+delle figure storiche del passato di WESTEROS!
NE AVESSI IL TEMPO!!!!
beh si tratta di un elenco dei personaggi come quello che compare in fondo ai libri, ma intendo farlo di gran lunga più completo; un indice di tutti i personaggi e i fatti principali su di loro, ma tutti, compresi oscuri popolani che vengono citati una volta sola... Sto spulciando i sette libri, ma sono arrivato solo alla Regina dei Draghi a pg 94. Inoltre dovrò poi completarlo con le informazioni tratte da westeros.org, e quelle da AFFC.
Purtroppo ho pochissimo tempo al momento...se a qualcuno interessa quanto fatto sinora, mandatemi un MP che ve lo invierò.
D'altro canto Arthur Dayne era il più gran cavaliere dell'epoca, pari solo a Rhaegar stessoNo no no il + grande era il mitico Robert Baratheon
il Mastino, Loras Tyrell, Jaime Lannister e Balon SwannLo so, ma non dirmi che Trant blount swann moore e oakearth e kattleblack sono (o erano) tra i 7 migliori guerrieri del reame...
1) non sono io a dirlo; credo che siano parole di Jaime, di Barristan o forse di Jorah Mormont, fonti decisamente affidabili e cmq nessuno nega la forza di Robert. C'erano anche altri cavalieri molto rinomati: il Cinghiale Selvaggio (ser Lyles Crakehall) e lord Jason Mallister, per esempio.
2) mai detto! quelli sono cimici davvero...
A mio parere la nomina è un misto di molti fattori: volontà politica (Loras; la sua nomina era parte dell'alleanza Tyrell-Lannister); volontà del cavaliere e volontà del re (il Mastino si è visto offrire il mantelo bianco all'improvviso, pubblicamente). Il re propone a quelli che ritiene essere i cavalieri più adatti, ed essi scelgono se accettare o no.
ammettendo che Aegon il drago abbia portato con sé come costume del'antica Valyria i 7 guerrieri, o che li abbia fondati come prima forma di alleanza e vassallaggio nei confronti degli sconfitti dei 7 regni (ma questo significherebbe che i primi setteerano 1 stark, 1 lannister, 1 tyrrel, 1 greyjoy, 1 tully, 1 arryn...e chi era il 7°, visto che Dorne non era stata sottomessa?)
Il paragone 7regni/7cavalieri è interessante, ma non mi pare corretto. Tutte quelle famiglie erano già nobili e potenti ben prima che arrivassero i Targaryen, e non vedo perché Aegon avrebbe dovuto scegliere tra loro. Inoltre, il fatto che manchi Dorne falsa il conto.
Proteggere il re è un previlegio riservato a soli 7 uomini in tutto il regno, chi non rinucerebbe a tutto ciò che gli può dare il proprio padre per essere un eletto??
Io per esempio, se fossi erede di Alto Giardino e dovessi scegliere tra la vita da lord, circondato da vassalli, ricco cibo, vita comoda... e una vita militare, sottoposto a un comandante e a una rigida disciplina, con possibilità di morte in battaglia e obbligo di castità per giunta l'onore è l'onore ma...
Esprimo anche la mia opinione..
Dunque..la guardia reale è composta dai sette migliori cavalieri dei Sette Regni, non dai sette migliori guerrieri (lo so che adesso ne è entrato a far parte anche il mastino, ma oserei dire che in questo momento stanno capitando parecchie cose inusuali, quindi..)..questo, secondo me, significa che questi sette signori dovessero avere non solo il requisito di grande abilità guerresca, ma anche di nobiltà d'animo, d'onore, di fedeltà , di sacrificio..altrimenti tanto valeva circondare il re di Immacolati! Io penso che in principio i membri della Guardia reale dovessero rapprentare proprio il meglio del significato "essere un Cavaliere".
Questo è un po' OT...ma perchè tanta gente si ostina a considerare Rhaegar Targaryen più forte di Robert Baratheon? Mi sembra che sia chiaramanete scritto che Robert abbia sfondato lo stomaco a mazzate al povero Drago in singolar tenzone..
OT che ci sta:
ripeto che è un'affermazione fatta da un personaggio, non da me. In ogni caso un duello non fa stato; molto dipende da fattori del momento (salute, stanchezza, emozioni; Robert odiava immensamente Rhaegar, lui no). Ricordo ad esempio il duello tra Loras Tyrell e Gregor Clegane:
SPOILER GIALLO
Loras ha vinto solo perché montava una cavalla in calore e Gregor uno stallone focoso, che si è imbizzarrito e ha disarcionato il cavaliere. Ma a terra, con le spade, dubito che del fiorellino sarebbe rimasto altro che i petali...
FINE SPOILER GIALLO
In altre occasioni il valore di Rhaegar era stato immenso: al torneo di Harrenhal, l'anno della falsa primavera, nessuno poté tenergli testa.
àˆ per questo che complessivamente Rhaegar era stimato il miglior cavaliere dei sette regni.
OT che ci sta:
ripeto che è un'affermazione fatta da un personaggio, non da me. In ogni caso un duello non fa stato; molto dipende da fattori del momento (salute, stanchezza, emozioni; Robert odiava immensamente Rhaegar, lui no). Ricordo ad esempio il duello tra Loras Tyrell e Gregor Clegane:
SPOILER GIALLO
Loras ha vinto solo perché montava una cavalla in calore e Gregor uno stallone focoso, che si è imbizzarrito e ha disarcionato il cavaliere. Ma a terra, con le spade, dubito che del fiorellino sarebbe rimasto altro che i petali...
FINE SPOILER GIALLO
In altre occasioni il valore di Rhaegar era stato immenso: al torneo di Harrenhal, l'anno della falsa primavera, nessuno poté tenergli testa.
àˆ per questo che complessivamente Rhaegar era stimato il miglior cavaliere dei sette regni.
Continuo l'OT, abbiate pasiensa. Io non sono d'accordo..
TENSIUN CHE E' SPOILER
Loras ha avuto del tempo per osservare la Montagna che cavalca, quindi ha messo in atto quel trucchetto. A quanto ne so gli aneddoti non raccontano di un Robert che ha spiato per giorni l'avverario al fine di coglierlo nel momento in cui era più debole, o del fatto che a Rhaegar sia successo qualcosa (tipo scivolare). Dicono che il cervo incoronato ha sfondato lo stomaco al drago.
Riguardo il fattore odio...
ALTRO SPOILER
...guarda un po' la povera Vipera Rossa che fine a fatto a causa del suo odio e della sua rabbia contro un lucido Gregor Clegane..
Ovviamente sono solo mie opinioni eh, mica vangelo!
Ultimo OT; se vogliamo continuare il discorso è meglio aprire un nuovo thread
Sull'odio: è un fattore che può essere determinante in due sensi, la differenza è tra il sapersi controllare e no. Infatti SPOILER GIALLO PORTALE
Oberyn era quasi riuscito a sconfiggere Gregor; ma si è trascinato troppo in là
Credo che nel duello in questione abbia dato a Robert la forza di sconfiggerlo. In ogni caso ogni duello singolo è un avvenimento a sé; come dire, in una serie di partite tra le stesse due squadre può capitare a entrambe di vincere.
Ok, allora basta OT! 
Alla salute! 
ammettendo che Aegon il drago abbia portato con sé come costume del'antica Valyria i 7 guerrieri, o che li abbia fondati come prima forma di alleanza e vassallaggio nei confronti degli sconfitti dei 7 regni (ma questo significherebbe che i primi setteerano 1 stark, 1 lannister, 1 tyrrel, 1 greyjoy, 1 tully, 1 arryn...e chi era il 7°, visto che Dorne non era stata sottomessa?)
Sarebbe più corretto dire che i cavalieri venivano dal Nord, dalle Terre dei Fiumi, dalla Valle, dalle Terre della Tempesta, dall'Altopiano e dall'Ovest.
Poi è vero,il settimo potrebbe essere stato uno fedele ad Aegon.
Questo è un po' OT...ma perchè tanta gente si ostina a considerare Rhaegar Targaryen più forte di Robert Baratheon? Mi sembra che sia chiaramanete scritto che Robert abbia sfondato lo stomaco a mazzate al povero Drago in singolar tenzone..
Infatti tutti e due sono stati grandi cavalieri. Il fatto è che Robert amava la guerra (oltre che le donne, il vino, il cibo...) ed era uno dei migliori in qualcosa che gli piaceva fare. Rhaegar è sempre stato un "topo di biblioteca" finchè non ha trovato la famosa e misteriosa pergamena che l'ha spinto a diventare uno dei migliori
Ecco un bel po' di informazioni sulla Guardia Reale, prese dal sito www.westeros.org
2.1.3.2. The Kingsguard
The Kingsguard wear snow-white cloaks (I: 32)
Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, was the deadliest of the Kingsguard in the time of Aerys II (I: 55)
It was said that Eddard Stark slew Ser Arthur Dayne in single combat (I: 55)
The Kingsguard are said to be the finest knights in the Seven Kingdoms (I: 64)
There are only seven Kingsguard, who wear white armor and have neither wives nor children. They live only to serve the king (I: 64)
Famous Kingsguard include Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, Ser Ryam Redwyne, Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, the twins Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk who died on each other's swords during the Dance of the Dragons, Ser Gerold Hightower the White Bull, Ser Arthur Dayne the Sword of the Morning, and Ser Barristan Selmy the Bold (I: 65)
Jaime Lannister, the Kingslayer, breaks tradition and wears gold-plated armor with a helm shaped like a lion's head and blazons his shield with the emblem of his house (I: 97, 262)
The Kingsguard wear intricate suits of white eenamelledscales, their fastenings for breastplate and other pieces made of silver (I: 120, 520)
The shields of the Kingsguard are pure, unblazoned white (I: 257)
Ser Barristan Selmy was the best sword in the realm during his youth (I: 266)
The days that men like Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight wore the white is seen as dead and gone. Only Barristan the Bold is judged to be of the true steel (I: 270)
Ser Arthur Dayne, Ser Gerold Hightower, and Ser Oswell Whent were ordered by Rhaegar to stand guard at the 'tower of joy' near Dorne. All three died there (I: 354-356)
Queen Naerys was supposed to have loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight greatly (I: 399)
Prince Aemon and his love for his brother's queen was doomed (I: 461)
A member of the Kingsguard gives up his inheritance and any chance at children when he swears his vows (I: 519)
The Kingsguard is a Sworn Brotherhood, vowing to serve for life. Only death may relieve one of his sacred trust (I: 520)
A Kingsguard swears to ward the king with all of his strength and to give his blood for his ruler's (I: 520)
The Sworn Brothers of the Kingsguard are always knights (I: 521)
The rite for making a new member of the White Swords can vary. In common there seems to be the fact that it is a solemn and formal event, in which the knight kneels as he makes his vows before the kings, and that he receives the white cloak of the Kingsguard from the Hand of the king or the Lord Commander himself (I: 526. II: 520)
It was rumored that Daeron II's true father was not Aegon IV but his brother, Prince Aemon the Dragonknight (I: 554, 693. TSS: 136)
Ser Roland Crakehall, Ser Willem Wylde, and the knight Ser Donnel of Duskendale (who might have been a hedge knight) were among the Kingsguard of King Daeron II (THK: 476, 512)
The White Swords take turns at shielding the king and the royal family (II: 211)
Prince Aemon the Dragonknight was said to have a wept when his sister Naerys wed their brother Aegon (II: 432)
The twin brothers Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk were said to have wept when they dealt mortal wounds to each other in the Dance of the Dragons (II: 432)
The Kingsguard do not marry (II: 577)
Jaime Lannister was the youngest knight to ever wear the white cloak of the Kingsguard at the age of 15 (II: 581. SSC: 29)
Ser Barristan Selmy was born on the Dornish Marches and squired for Lord Swann of Stonehelm in his youth (II: 646. III: 651)
Cersei Lannister seems to have had much to do with the chosing of her brother Jaime for the Kingsguard (III: 128)
Ser Jaime was chosen to the Kingsguard only a little over a month after the death of old Ser Harlan Grandison, who passed away in his sleep (III: 128)
Ser Ilyn Payne had been captain of Lord Tywin's guard while he was Hand. He once boasted that it was the Hand who truly ruled the realm, and Aerys ripped his tongue out for it (III: 128)
Lord Tywin was furious that he had lost his heir to the Kingsguard. He gave up the Handship on a thin pretext and returned to Casterly Rock, taking Cersei with him (III: 129)
Ser Arthur Dayne rode against the Kingswood Brotherhood, and knighted Jaime Lannister on the battlefield for his valor (III: 129, 130)
Ser Mandon Moore was brought from the Vale by the Hand, Lord Jon Arryn, and made one of Robert's Kingsguard (III: 134)
Prince Aemon the Dragonknight is said to have protected his sister Naerys night and day (III: 183)
Aegon the Unworthy had never harmed Queen Naerys, perhaps for fear of their brother the Dragonknight (III: 184)
When a knight of the Kingsguard, a Toyne, had fallen in love with one of Aegon the Unworthy's mistresses, King Aegon had both their heads taken off (III: 184)
The Dragonknight once won a tourney as the Knight of Tears, so he could name his sister the queen of love and beauty In place of the king's mistress (III: 282)
Barristan the Bold twice donned a mystery knight's armor, the first time when he was only ten (III: 282)
After Ser Jaime Lannister donned the white cloak of the Kingsguard at the great tournament at Harrenhal, King Aerys sent him away to King's Landing before he could take part in the jousting. The White Bull offered to take his place, but Aerys refused (III: 345, 502)
A former member of the Kingswood Brotherhood, Ulmer, claimed to have put an arrow through the White Bull's hand to steal a kiss from a Dornish princess, as well as her jewels and a chest of gold (III: 369)
The brothers Toyne died for treason - this may be the Kingsguard who was executed for coveting King Aegon the Unworthy's mistress and his brothers, or perhaps Simon Toyne and some sibling(s) who were part of the Kingswood Brotherhood (III: 369, 407)
Growing frantic, Aerys gracelessly reminded Prince Lewyn Martell that Princess Elia was in his power and sent him to take command of 10,000 Dornishmen coming up the kingsroad (III: 418)
Jon Darry and Barristan Selmy of the Kingsguard were sent towards to Stoney Sept to rally what they could of Lord Connington's scattered men (III: 418)
King Aerys kept Ser Jaime Lannister close, not trusting him, and so Ser Jaime learned all of his plans before the Sack of King's Landing (III: 419)
Jon Arryn came to Sunspear the year after Robert took the throne to return Prince Lewyn's bones and speak with Prince Doran (III: 436, 593)
Barristan Selmy slew the last of the Blackfyre Pretenders, Maelys the Monstrous, in single combat on the Stepstones during the War of the Ninepenny Kings (III: 521, 752)
Ser Ryam Redwyne was the greatest knight of his day, and one of the worst Hands ever to serve a king (III: 604)
Ser Barristan Selmy was born on the Dornish Marches and squired for Lord Swann of Stonehelm in his youth (II: 646. III: 651)
The Dragonknight was saved from a snakepit by Baelor the Blessed, who had walked the Boneway barefoot to make peace with Dorne (III: 665)
Crippled or whole, a Kingsguard serves for life. If crippled, they'll be allowed to serve out their life with honor while other White Swords take up the burden in their place (III: 703. SSC: 21)
Supposedly, a suitable gift to the Faith would persuade the High Septon to release a Kingsguard from his vows (III: 703)
The first floor of the White Sword Tower contains a white book on a white table. (III: 750)
A round white room, its walls whitewashed stone hung with white woolen tapestries, forms the first floor of White Sword Tower, a slender structure of four stories built into an angle of the castle wall overlooking the bay. The undercroft holds arms and armor, the second and third floors the small spare sleeping cells of the six brothers of the Kingsguard, and the topmost floor is given over to the Lord Commander's apartments. His rooms are spare as well, but spacious, and they stand above the outer walls (III: 750)
The winter raiment of the Kingsguard are a tunic and breeches of white wool and a heavy white cloak (III: 750)
The Round Room has white wool hangings covering the walls anda white shield and two crossed longswords mounted abov the hearth. Behind the table is a chair of old black oak with cushions of blanched cowhide, the leather worn thin (III: 751)
Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, Ser Ryam Redwyne, the Demon of Darry, Ser Duncan the Tall, and the Pale Griffn Alyn Connington were all past Lord Commanders (III: 751)
The table in the Round Room is carved of old weirwood, pale as bone, shaped as a huge shield supported by three white stallions. By tradition, the Lord Commander sits at the top of the shield and the brothers three to a side on the rare occcasions when all seven were assembled (III: 751)
The book atop the table in the Round Room is massive, two feet tall and a foot and ahalf wide, a thousand pages thick, fine white vellum bound between covers of belached white leather with gold hinges and fastenings. It is called The Book of the Brothers but is most often simply called the White Book (III: 751)
Every knight who has ever served in the Kingsguard has a page in the White Book, to recod his name and deeds for all time. On the top left-hand corner of each page was drawn the shield the man had carried at the time he was chosen, inked in rich colors. In the bottom right corner is the pure white shield of the Kingsguard. In the space between the shields were written the facts of each man's life and service (III: 751)
The drawings and illuminations in the White Book are done by septons sent from the Great Sept of Baelor three times a year (III: 751)
It is the duty of the Lord Commander to keep the entries in the White Book up to date (III: 751)
Barristan Selmy won the name of "the Bold" in his 10th year when he donned borrowed armor to appear as a mystery knight at a tourney in Blackhaven, where he was defeated and unmasked by Ducan, Prince of Dragonflies (III: 752)
Barristan Selmy was knighted in his 16th year by King Aegon V Targaryen after performing great feats of prowess as a mystery knight in the winter tourney at King's Landing, defeating Prince Duncan the Small and Ser Duncan the Tall, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard (III: 752)
Ser Barristan the Bold defeated Lormelle Long Lance and Cedrik Storm, the Bastard of Bronzegate (III: 752)
Barristan Selmy was named to the Kingsguard in his 23rd year by Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower (III: 752)
Ser Barristan brought King Aerys II to safety during the Defiance of Duskendale despite an arrow wound in his chest (III: 752)
Ser Barristan avenged the murder of his Sworn Brother, Ser Gwayne Gaunt (III: 752)
Ser Barristan rescued Lady Jeyne Swann and her septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood, defeating Simon Toyne and the Smiling Knight, and slaying the former (III: 752)
Ser Barristan served in the honor guard that brought Lady Cersei Lannister to King's Landing to wed King Robert (III: 752)
Barristan the Bold led the attack on Old Wyk during Balon Greyjoy's Rebellion (III: 752)
Ser Jaime Lannister served in the honor guard that brought his sister the Lady Cersei to King's Landing to wed King Robert, and was champion in the tourney held at King's Landing on the occasion of their wedding (III: 753)
The Smiling Knight was a madman, chivalry and cruelty all jumbled together, but he did not know the meaning of fear. When Ser Arthur Dayne broke the Kingswood Brotherhood, he fought against the squire Jaime Lannister and then against the Sword of the Morning with Dawn in his hands. The outlaw's sword had so many notches by the end that Ser Arthur had stopped to let him fetch a new one. When the robber knight told Dayne that it was Dawn that he wanted when the fight resumed, Ser Arthur responded that he would have it and made an end of it, killing him (III: 753)
When the Kingsguard meets in the Round Room, the Lord Commander formally asks, "Sers, who guards the king?" They reply with what other knights have been asked to see to his protection. "Will they keep him safe?" asks the Lord Commander after, and when they respond in the affirmative he replies, "Be seated, then" (III: 754)
There have been times during its history where the Kingsguard has been divided against itself, most notably and bitterly during the Dance of the Dragons (III: 754)
The Kingsguard are sworn to obey the king, but the first duty laid on them is to protect him (III: 757)
The vows of the Kingsguard require them to protect the king's secrets as they would his life (III: 815)
Ser Gwayne Corbray was a knight of the Kingsguard during Daeron I's reign. He wielded a Valyrian steel sword named Lady Forlorn, and fought against Daemon Blackfyre on the Redgrass Field for nearly an hour before being defeated. Daemon dismounted to make sure he was not accidentally trampledand ordered that he be helped to the rear (TSS: 111)
Aemon the Dragonknight carried the Valyrian steel sword named Dark Sister (TSS: 137)
Prince Lewyn of Dorne was an uncle of Doran Martell and died fighting on the Trident (SSC: 21)
If a member of the Kingsguard is seriously crippled but survives, he wouldn't be forced out of the White Swords but allowed to live out his life with honor while other members take up the burden (SSC: 21)
The Kingsguard are sworn to celibacy along with giving up their wives and inheritance, but no doubt some have lapsed (and one White Sword was killed for sleeping with the mistress of a king) (SSC: 21)
The oaths of the Kingsguard do not envision rebellion, so there is nothing which says that a successful rebel is an improper king to serve. In the case of Jaime Lannister and Barristan Selmy, they were pardoned by Robert Baratheon and were allowed to choose whether they would remain as part of the White Swords (SSC: 21)
The Kingsguard are not necessarily always the best knights, as sometimes the best knights are not interested in taking such stringent vows. Further, politics, favoritism, rewards for past service, and other factors play a part as being a member of the Kingsguard is a fine position for younger son of a lord (SSC: 21)
Robert Baratheon's need to fill five positions in the Kingsguard at once was highly unusual (SSC: 21)
Ser Jonothor Darry, brother to Ser Willem Darry, was the second member of the Kingsguard to die at the Trident (SSC: 24)
